From: joshua geller (dclxvi_at_best.com)
Date: 02/25/98
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:42:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802251742.JAA20980@shell5.ba.best.com> From: joshua geller <dclxvi_at_best.com> Subject: Helios: [Fwd: new list]
while I won't pretend not to have somewhat of a feeling of
gratification to see what I have been trying, but which I have
not been allowed, to say on these forums coming from another, more
politically acceptable source, my main feeling upon reading this is
one of regret.
mike walden is a very intelligent man who has done a very bad thing to
himself. I firmly believe that he has done more to retard the progress
of lighter than air flight in the late 20th century than any other
single person. I wish that this were not so; I remember a time when I
liked mike walden.
but I also remember a time I had faith in mike walden: outside of the
realm of religion, faith is a betrayer. in a field that has been as
subject to the assault of passionate flakes and con-men as the airship
field, faith in someone's word is not something that I can afford.
best to all, as always,
josh
___
Chris McCoy writes:
>
> Helios members,
>
> I do not like to post this stuff, but feel that it is better coming from me
> than
> elsewhere. Please read it completely. Any concerns you have may be
> addressed
> to me if you would rather not put them up to public view. I promise they
> will remain confidential.
> I have left Mr. Walden's text in tact to ensure I am not playing politics.
> I have asked Mr. Walden to reconsider, and will inform you of the outcome.
>
> Chris McCoy
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Walden <walden_at_nevada.edu> on 02/24/98 11:37:54 PM
>
> Please respond to walden_at_nevada.edu
>
> To: Chris McCoy/HQ/SigmaNet
> cc: "C. McCoy" <kamakiriad_at_earthlink.net>
> Subject: [Fwd: new list]
>
>
>
>
> So...Chris....
> Is this really you or what...
> (That E-Mail address doesn't say anything about McCoy....)
>
> ***Kamakiriad is my home email. I have been using it so I don't catch any
> heat at work.
> I have gotten everything that has gone on launch.net.....
> however it has been a little dead lately...
> is this the "Unreliability" you are talking about..
>
> ***Several times the list has gone down for 1-2 weeks at a time. We get all
> of our
> posts, but much later than we should.
> 1. What "Rendering" have you been passing around of the
> ultralight design.
>
> ***The one you sent me.
>
> 2. My EXACT post on how to do it..(with measurements and configuration
> along with the "Rendering" of the ship) I think that this just MIGHT
> require some CREDIT being due to me here don't you think ???
>
> ***Each person I have sent the rendering to will tell you that I always
> give you credit, Mike.
> I am using your rendering, but not your calcs.
> Instead I am hearing a LOT about YOUR ship.
>
> ***My ship as you put it is the one I discussed with Bob. The one I am
> building for all of us to use.
>
> And YOUR markets for the CAMBOT.
>
> ***I have made no mention of the STRATACAM on a public page in months.
>
> And about how you are going to sic your lawyers on me.
>
> ***If you recall, I spoke with Bob and we cleared this up. Let's not start
> this over again.
>
> 3. Interesting as the "Helios archive" i am reading here says that you
> originally set up Helios after the members voted to build one of my
> ships.
>
> ***In the loosest terms, we are still building one of YOUR ships. It is an
> ultra-light, and it is saucer shaped.
> It has undergone two years of evolution though. It has no DBC and no firm
> outer shell.
> The whole group has contributed to this design so it is not entirely yours.
> You will get plenty of design
> credit though, if that is what you are concerned with.
> I have put in lots of research time on materials and methods. Others have
> worked with me on
> hot-air burner placement, and gondola design. I have contributed a lot of
> money.
> I was elected president because I can get things done. Sometimes that
> requires action.
> The ship as you originally intended would have cost $250,000+. Sorry, I am
> not
> Bill Gates.
>
> Maybe you should get it out and read it.....
> You seem to have gone off and spent a lot of $$$ on YOUR project..
> just as J)&h has...completely forgetting to "keep your eye on THE
> prize..." it has somehow become YOUR prize..
>
> ***Exactly, MY MONEY, my decision.
> It is my GOAL Mike, to see an entire airship industry created. My GOAL is
> to
> have an airship demonstrator the ENTIRE industry can use. My GOAL has been
> to build this for passion, not for money. My GOAL is to see you, Bob, Josh,
> and
> anyone else who wishes have the opprotunity to make a lot of airships.
> There is no PRIZE.
>
> 4. You spent a lot of time making up thet "Inflamatory" post to
> "get me to answer...." when you KNOW both my work and home number..
> You "didn't have time...to send E-Mail.." just a page long rant..
> Where you threatened me with legel action if I was "looking" at the
> market you are intending to go into with YOUR ship.
>
> ***Yes. I do not deny this. If you have spoken to Bob, you will understand
> my reasons. I am sorry that it happened, but from the look of your
> posts, I thought something very unethical was going on.
> If you don't answer phone messages, I have little choice.
> You and Bob came to Burbank, met with individuals, then you
> suddenly invent the CAMBOT. WTF?
>
> UNDERSTAND SOMETHING...
> I have been ripped off by much better than you or J0&h !!!
> HYStar fo one....(I didn't care so much then as it got my designes
> into the air and testing done that I couldn't afford at the time...
> I still have a written copy of our contract and nondisclosure
> agreement...Just as I have one from J0&h....I am not going to be
> Nearly so nice in the future..
>
> ***I have never "ripped you off". I honestly think you are overly paranoid
> Mike.
> You have also lied repeatedly. You have overexaggerated, and when caught,
> you threaten.
>
> THAT CAMBOT was designed and built before you knew the difference
> between a blimp and your ba-ba....
> and the only material properties you were worried about was how
> absorbent the stuff was that was getting the wetness off your butt.
>
> ***Funny Mike, you have used the term CAMBOT 3 times in this letter like
> it means something. I have never heard you use it before today.
> My project is the STRATACAM. You never had a CAMBOT, and just
> because you put camera mounts on something does not mean that you
> have what the industry needs. Motion dampening, industry standard mounts,
> and many
> other things have gone into making my project. Besides, I have put off my
> project to build the ultralight. If I intended to make this MY business, I
> would
> have followed the money, not build something useless to it.
> Don't jump on a bandwagon Mike. Every idea isn't yours. I won't dignify the
> "ba-ba" comment with a reply.
>
> The XEM-4 RC model had video mounts on board back in the mid 80s.
>
> ***The GOODYEAR BLIMP had them in the 70's. The navy had film cameras on
> the LOS ANGELES
> in the 30's. So what? My point is that you can't work in good faith with
> people if you are trying to
> take thier one business venture away. I have kept STRATACAM seperate from
> Helios, and
> even volunteered to contribute profit from it to Helios when it sells.
> In the news stories we did on the 30-XB we talked about the full blown
> multimedia capability it has...the internet connectiviey and its
> ability to transmit and receive broadcast quality picture and sound..
> (one of my earliest designs is a fiberoptic light sign that allows
> me to put anything on the bottom of one of my ships that I can get
> into a video format...)
>
> *** If you want to make a camera platform, go ahead, I will have that
> much less respect for you.
> Airships have been "Camera platforms" long before I and certainly
> you had ever thought about it...as you said "You can't claim stuff
> that was here before you were and isn't yours to claim..."
>
> ***Exactly, but this frustration you are feeling is how everyone else feels
> when you claim all airship ideas as your own. Make a platform, sell it, I
> only ask that you consult with me before you steal my legitimate contacts.
> You asked the same of us, and we respected it.
> In its 20 year history L.T.A.S. has talked to a number of people.
> Some of whom have recontacted us since seeing our new web site...
> http://www.nevada.edu/home/8/walden/NEWHOME.HTML
> Some of them are lawfirms and promotions firms connected with
> major studios...
> If someone asks me to build a camera platform for them....I WILL..
> Maybe it will be as much of a surprise as your "Announcement" of
> YOUR camera platform project was to the rest of Helios.
>
> ***Good for you Mike. You stood up to evil me. The point is, not one
> contact you have made has bought something from you. That is
> because you have nothing to show them. That is why we are making the
> ultralight.
>
> If I do....
> I Will build a superior product..
> I will NOT be threatened.
>
> ***Why do you assume that your products will always be superior to anyone
> elses?
> You are not a god Mike. Sometimes other people are better than you.
> I am sending this to YOU as I ASKED BOB to tell you I was considering
> this when you were supposed to "call him on thursday...to keep us (As
> Helios board members) informed..."
> YOU didn't..so I guess I am writing you because you couldn't bother to
> use a phone either.
>
> ***I called Bob a day late. I am sorry.
> Surprises...Threats..Ranting, Raving, and starting your own thing.....
> Now a lack of promised communication...
> You say I should not compare you with J0&h..
> "If it walks like a duck....talks like a duck...."
> He has said that "He will not have anything to do with a project that
> Bob and I are associated with..."
>
> ***I have had my own thing before I met you Mike. When I regret
> starting Helios, it's usually due to the fact that I have to deal with
> this childish bullshit.
> FINE.
> I now wish I had felt that way when I allowed him to become associated
> with the Stanford "Canopy Trek airship" project that he is now
> "claiming" on his web page....We both know how he managed to mess that
> up and accomplish NOTHING (I am NOT counting some thrown together 2x4s
> as 6 months work...) We will not even discuss his supposed "Buoyancy
> controller" that he is afraid to show me even with the nondisclosure
> statment we have signed.
> As I told you I was giving you the chance to reform the board and do
> something about it...I even called for a vote...
> the feeling is more than mutual.
> ***Mike, I am the President of the Helios board. I will act in the best
> interest
> of Helios, not for your personal comfort. Settle your vendettas yourself.
>
> You note that I did not go off on you as a response to your
> "Inflamatory Post"...I have thought about this for a week or so...
> (Longer if you count the other situations listed above....)
>
> ***Considering that I apologised, I see no reason why.
> --------------------------------
> February 22, 1998 11.05 PM....
> I (Michael K. Walden) AM AS OF NOW OFFICIALLY RESIGNING
> FROM HELIOS AND ITS BOARD.
> I NO LONGER BEAR ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ACTIONS OR DECISIONS
> MADE BY HELIOS.
> I HEREBY GIVE PUBLIC NOTICE OF THE TERMINATION OF ALL AGREEMENTS
> REAL OR IMPLIED BETWEEN MYSELF, MY COMPANY (L.T.A.S. Corp.) AND HELIOS.
> I will be putting this on the Helios list and the lta builders list...
> along with an attached file of the source documents for all of the above
> quotes.
>
> *** I will post this for you. I don't intend to let you scare the
> membership with your bulling.
> Some of the members are really starting to get involved. I don't want you
> to ruin this.
>
> I don't know if Bob will continue either I will ask him (or you can IF
> you bother to call....) tomorrow...
> Helios was a great idea....
> ***Still is. I regret that you feel that we are all "ripping you off"
> Mabey, now that the last of the profit mongers has left, we can worry about
> building a ship,
> instead of who gets what cut.
>
> an internet company to build the BEST airship designs in the market...
> They picked L.T.A.S. designs.
>
> ***Since there has been no testbed, and no evidence, Mike, we don't know
> what the BEST design is. I will say that many folks on this page have an
> opinion
> of what the best design is, they just don't call thiers the "best". They
> don't
> know for sure. Neither do you. I back up what I say with research. No one
> on
> this list can say that I don't. I am not an engineer, but I sometimes act
> more like
> one than a real engineer.
> Too bad two of the board of directors decided to go off and promote
> their own projects using vast amounts of my design recomendations and
> claiming them and the markets as their own...
> instead of "Keeping their eye on the REAL prize.."
>
> ***Two of the board members have continued to move towards building a ship.
> You claim all ideas as your own and demand our scarce MONEY for the
> priveledge to
> use them. This is humorous considering that the ship we intended to build
> was mostly yours. I am still building a ship, one Helios can AFFORD. Josh
> is doing his own
> thing, but he is doing what he can afford. You seem to be running out of
> friends to alienate.
>
> ***I recommend that you consider these things now, before you decide.
> When we finish this ship, the Helios board will loan it to whoever needs to
> demo it.
> If you choose to leave, the board members replacing you may not see any
> reason to
> lend it to you. Further, I have been personally attacked by you continually
> since Josh
> left. In the future, I will throw out any mail I receive from you, without
> reading it
> completely, the first sign of insult I see.
>
> ***I think the people on this list know that I am goal oriented. What they
> don't know is that
> I have spent waayyy too much time babysitting board members who are
> contributing less and
> less as we get closer to completion. I sincerely hope you decide to stay
> Mike, but if you do,
> you will contribute, and stop being a nusiance. I no longer have time to
> keep a job, build this
> thing, and soothe your emotions.
>
> Chris
>
>
>