From: Brennon Kaye (nonnerbeyak_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 12/14/02
From: "Brennon Kaye" <nonnerbeyak_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Simplicity domes, and a question about PVC... Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:48:40 +0000 Message-ID: <F68hEabjXj81Vl8sABX0000fd61@hotmail.com>
I know of one that isn't any better than PVC, Tevzel is a polyethelene CFC,
but it doesn't ever degrade, and Dupont will actually buy your scraps back
to reverse them chemically in the same hermetically sealed factory that it's
made in. J.Baldwin made a Tevzel pillow dome with three layers of argon
filled 5mil Tevzel for pillows on each section of a 3-freq medium sized
dome. You can find it in his book "Bucky Works". The dome he made was for
rooftop greenhouses, and he got it down to 1/2 lb./foot^2, which is 1.1 lbs
lighter than Buckminster's lightest dome. He designed it for the East Coast
who had trade deficits due to the amount of produce they obtain from further
westerly states. The dome let in 97% of UV, and the full color spectrum,
while insulating like a mofo due to the high R rating of argon. He was able
to grow bananas in the dead of winter, and also found the dome to have
incredible acoustic properties. He set his first one up adjacent to Crosby,
Stills, & Nash's property, and it would resonate for miles when they would
jam, it was also back in the Sandoz days so they had a pretty trippy time.
Tevzel is also so tough, being in the Teflon family, that even if punctured
with a knife, no humans hands could tear the puncture on micron further,
except maybe a man I know named The Polar Bear, but that is a serious
exception. It costs about $70/lb. but it is the longest lasting, gnarliest
plastic I know of. If you're thinking for permanents, it may benefit you.
For permanent domes, I would recomend non-compressed struts, hubbed together
with two aluminum discs covered with epoxy, and pressed together
hydroliclly. That will not come down. Unfortunately, humans have a
tendency to build not for permanents, but for resale value. It's funny that
we still build houses of the most biodegradable material we know of, and
that most people would rather have a house that serves them after their done
with it (resale), than one that they are happy with while they are there.
The average American moved properties every 5 years, and more and more
people are just looking for a dome they can inhabit in the mountains rather
than running around the city's all confused and disoriented. The jobs that
people originally moved to the city's for are no longer there, and we still
find ourselves filling fiat positions that aren't fulfilling at all. As far
as PVC goes, polypropelen is a good solution, for now, but the demand for
longer lasting plastic like Tevzel and it's distant cousins would be rising
eventually bringing down cost. Check out J.Baldwin's pillow domes, and you
may have your solutions to greenhouse funkadelic. Ciao 4 now.
Namaste,
Brennon Kaye
San Francisco, Spaceship Earth
>From: Ernie <ernestly_at_addr.com>
>To: Domesteading <domesteading_at_sculptors.com>
>Subject: Re: Simplicity domes, and a question about PVC...
>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:12:56 -0600
>
> http://www.things.org/~jym/greenpeace/pvc-free-xmas.html
>a "greenpeace pvc" search turned up interesting items. I think it was there
>I read about the details of pvc hazards, how Volkswagen does not use any
>pvc in cars production; and Bill Moyers pbs show on industrial chemicals
>was good, workers effects from being around pvc production for years,
>governmnet and industry cover up.
>http://archive.greenpeace.org/~toxics/pvcdatabase/
>
>
>Ernie
>
>The Butterfly wrote:
>
>> I've been researching PVC for my ball-and-socket hub design, and as
>>soon as I raise some money for the prototyping, I plan to give it a go and
>>try to produce kits. But I also just finished reading "Cradle to Cradle"
>>recently (a fantastic book, and I recommend it to everyone on this list!)
>>by William McDonough and Michael Braungart and they have lots of bad (yet
>>vague) things to say about PVC and basically think it should be phased out
>>and not used at all. This I find a bit confusing, and would like to know
>>more about why
>>it's so bad. I don't *need* to use it for my dome greenhouse kits, and
>>only
>>selected it because it was cheap and available locally in many places. But
>>if it poses an environmental threat, I'd rather go with something safer.
>>
>> Does anyone have more info on the perils of PVC? Suggestions for
>>other things? I'll also do some digging in the chemical libraries, but
>>thought I'd check the collective knowledge-base.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Even if you don't have anything now, if you spot something later
>>>that might be useful, please send it my way. I hope to have several
>>>pages of credits in the appendix!
>>>
>>>Thanks - Dan G.
>>>
Just start assembling info in the wiki, and it will start to take
>>shape. Later on, if you want to work on print-publication, we can extract
>>the info for typesetting, etc. (If I'm misunderstanding and you don't want
>>to web-publish at all, please correct me. This is an old thread...) It's
>>just that wiki is one of the best tools I've seen for
>>group-collaboration, and can produce quality results if people only use
>>it.
>>(That's the tricky part...getting people to try it.)
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